Category: Let's talk
I've always loved tactile graphics in general and have become increasingly more interested in them. While looking up some information, I found this.
http://dots.physics.orst.edu/dotsplus.html
Apparently, Dotsplus is a different kind of braille. I can't really explain it as well as they did in that link but I read in another place that it can display printed material with the exact format that a sighted person would see. Plus, it can even render print letters etc into graphics for us to feel. The Tiger embosser, the same one that does everything but write your homework for you, has made this possible. So has anyone seen this Dotsplus? If so, how does it differ from braille in feel? Is it easy to learn?
I've seen it. Its nothing but dots, closely spaced, in a line, curved to form a print letter. I've often seen it in graphics to replace braille. I'm not quite sure why they do it. Grade two braille is much smaller, much faster, and takes less dots. Its more of a style thing then anything else. Books written in this format would have to be many times larger then braille books are now; and we all know how big breaille books are now. If you don't, find a websters dictionary and try and take it home with you.
Basically, the system your speaking of it graphic representation of the print alphabet, bloody useless if you ask me, but cool to look at.
hahahaha a dictionary in braille? Oh man! Braille can't even handle a normal print book without getting bulky. I think this system was specifically designed for things that braille can't represent, like graphical symbols. I've always wanted to see the print alphabet in raised dots, especially the Greek one since I've never seen any of those letters, while I have an idea of several English ones. I'm actually interested in microbraille, like the kind they use on cassettes and such but I've never found a machine for that.
Micro-braille is rarely used because of how expensive the machines are. that is one of the reasons that a lot of audio book companies are switching over to a sort of mp3 player thing, I can't remember the name of it. One, its cheaper then tapes or cd's, two its more portable, and three it can't be copied onto a computer. Micro braille is going by the wayside. Besides, there isn't a lot of different, its only a few millimeeters of space anyway.
Now jumbo braille is a different story. Just as stupid and sueless, but a hell of a lot more frustrating. Anyone who has read the braille plaques on the walls of the FDR memorial in washington D.C. can tell you how difficult it is to read jumbo braille.
Actually, it can using a patch rord and headphones. lol Jumbo braille is ridiculous but I guess it's good for those just learning.
I don't see how. Its impossible to read with the fingertips in a single sweep. Maybe for the sighted person whose just learning it would be easier. But I've taught several dozen sighted people to read braille, both with fingertips and with eyes, and never once even mentioned jumbo braille.
Maybe, it's good for people with nuropathy who may find it difficult to actually feel regular braille dots at first? I donno. lol
Yes, people with neuropathy in their fingers use jumbo Braille. I've tried reading it. don't need it.
Yes, people with neuropathy in their fingers use jumbo Braille. I've tried reading it. don't need it.
Also people that have a hard time using their hands use it. I knew a girl whohad good large muscle control, but notso good fine motor control, so sheused Jumbo Braille. Yeah, it takes longer to read, but for some, I imagineit's better than nothing.
I've seen that graphicsthing done with ebossers. I thought it was meant to be moon actually which is very hard to read if you're used to reading braille, but apparently you can use it to make proper pictures as well which is pretty cool!
What I really wanna see is the Optacon updated. There's so so much that can be done with that idea today that it's ridiculous! I wonder if we, along with the Optacon users, can draw up and sign a petition and send it to Telesensory and other manufacturers to see if we can have a modern one made? I mean, think of the millions of people around the world who could benefit from it. For those who don't know, the Optacon was a device that let you read letters via a one-line vibrating pin display. The camera is about the size of a cigarette lighter and the machine's also pretty tiny. They even made software for the Mac and for the PC that allowed the user to see what was on the screen via the pins on the machine. Could you imagine just picking up a can or a box of something that a regular scanning program can't read, putting your little device on it and knowing what it is? I feel so sorry for my generation, I really do. I've never seen one either.
I've seen one, and used it. It is slow because you can only read one leter at a time, it just comes up against your fingertip. But I know some people that can read very quickly with them. I however am not one of them. If they could blend that technology, with the technology of a refreshable braille display, it would be perfect.
It would only need to be maybe a twelve cell display, and then a camera. Slide the camera over whatever you wanted to read, and have it pop up on the braille display. It could be very compact.
It would also be interesting if they could make a camera that could use blue tooth or usb cable to hook up to a cell phone or a braille note. So you could turn one of those into a reading device also. I'm sure it could be done with some degree of accuracy, we'd just need to find someone to invent it.
You're thinking along the same lines as me. Can anyone give me any other blind lists, whether general or for technology, xto which I could write? I want to get some support for this before I start contacting the various companies.
I don't like jumble braille or minny braille, but oh boy for grade two!
I actually wanna learn Grade III. Btw, why is minibraille so expensive to produce?
Grade three is difficult, I know some of it, but not much, I gave up trying to learn it when I got confused. Micro-braille is so expensive because it is made on one machine, and one machine only. If it were possible for an embosser to do both, it wouldn't be quite so expensive. Plus, they don't save a lot of room anyway, so they are mostly using standard cell braille.
lol If I'm teaching myself how to speak, read and write in modern greek, I hardly think Grade III braille can be that difficult. *smile*
Well, I don't claim to be an expert on ancient greek by any means. However, i do know that it is still organized into words, still uses spaces to separate its words, and every letter has its own meaning. Grade three braille uses as few spaces as possible, can drop letters, uses braille symbols that don't exist in grade two, or even worse, have a different meaning in grade two, and the grammar is completely different. Entire sentences can be reduced to single groups of characters. It goes against every instinctual rule of language. So if that sounds easy to you, go for it.
Where can I find detailed lessons on reading and writing grade three Braille?
Well, there's a whole host of subjects for discussion here: where to begin?
Microbraille: years ago, when afb put out a catalog of devices, they sold a slate that could produce microbraille. It was meant to hold a postcard, and you could get more characters on a postcard than you could with a regular slate and stylus. The braille felt really neat too.
Optacon. I, too, have wondered why someone didn't upgrade the optacon? Think of the advances that have probably been made just in camera technology. You could probably zoom the camera in on a character now now, rather than define it's parameters by moving the camera around the page with ever increasing frustration levels.
Embossers and tactiles. The tiger is amazing, but very technical. You almost have to have an engineering degree to operate the damned thing. But, for someone who knows what they are doing, it produces great graphics. It'ss also very expensive. Some of the other embossers had a graphics mode. You would turn over the embossing bar and put the machine into graphics mode. It "drew" everything, including regular braille. Very slow, but produced pretty good graphics.
Jumbo braille. For the good braille reader jumbo braille is a real pain in the fingers. But, for the person with neuropathy it's the only way to go.
Good topic.
Bob
Must look for that slate etc. I never even knew microbraille existed until either someone told me about it or I looked on a tape and compared it with regular braille. I honestly don't remember which. In any case, I always thought making braille smaller would be a good idea. I've got a Versapoint Duo and a Braille Blazer. Both produce Graphics though the Blazer is alot easier to use. I'm still looking for a good graphics program (DOS, windows or Mac) that I can use with it. We should start a group to bring back the Optacon.
the tiger is a complicated piece of machinery, and expensive as you said. The one I was trained on cost around 20 thousand dollars, and it was a low end one. However, with practice, as in all things, you do get very good at it. The braille teacher at the school I went to, who trained me, was amazingly good. We created games and all kinds of things with a tiger, it was amazingly fun.
I thought the K-NFB reader is exactly what you guys are referring to, taking picture of a sheet of paper with a cell phone and have it recognize and read the text back to you. Bar code scanners do a similar job for products and there is a scanning pen as well, I can't remember what it's called, have to dig it up. I haven't tried any of these, though that's about to change, but I saw a very impressive demonstration of the K-NFB reader.
Opticon would be neat, I suppose, but keep in mind in order to use it you'd have to teach blindies the regular alphabet and it takes considerable training to use, I tried it in elementary school. Then again knowing the regular alphabet is not a bad skill to have at all, but it's a cost benefit decission in each individual case I suppose.
Using spoken word and digital camera is much cheaper and faster than either braille display or opticon. The biggest problem I see is with the cost of producing refreshable braille, it's ridiculous, but hopefully it's coming down, like the new Perkins display shows there's hope for that.
cheers
-B
Yes, a friend and I have similar ideas, though mine is to make the new system portable while he wants to focus on providing a visual/tactile layout to the computer screen. Personally, I've never seen and can't understand what all the fuss is in understanding the exact layout on a screen. I get along fine without it. Anyway, he also agreed about the cost of braille displays. I suppose that's one of the things that kept this product from being designed. Also, we both feel it would be far more beneficial to have more than one line read on the display. I thought the Tiger was $10,000, already way out of my price range. But $20,000? That's even more ridiculous! What the hell does this machine do that it's so expensive? I mean, the graphics are amazing but still. I doubt I could use one, since I looked at the manual for the Versapoint Duo and got confused. I'll take my easy-to-use Braille Blazer. I already got enough on my plate with Greek, QuickBasic, Enhanced DR-DOS, cultural studies, religious studies and divinatory/paranormal studies, all self-taught.